SupaDupaSteve

First off, I'm new. I've got a 95 NA that I'm going with an l33 (small cam and some head work), and an 8.8 rear end. I'd love to go with a T56 but as we all know they aren't cheap and somewhat difficult to come by. After doing some research I've come across a thread on Grassroots forum where a few people suggested an old 4 speed T10 trans. Here's a thread where someone swapping an lm7 into an old chevy used one.

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I really like the looks of that option as it seems very budget friendly and simple (no custom parts) but I'm wondering if anyone has ever used one in a miata. Where would the shifter be, hows it line up with the v8r trans crossmember? etc..

Thanks!

.boB

It can be done. But unless you just happen to have one lying around, it's probably a wash. You'll need to find a 30 year old transmission, and get it rebuilt. Then you have to find a bellhousing and clutch set up for the swap.

The T10 used a Z bar mechanical linkage. So you'll have to buy an internal hydraulic bearing. I don't think there's room for an external slave cylinder.

The shifter is external, and on the left side. You'll probably have to modify the trans tunnel to make it fit.

In the end, though, I don't think it's worth it. There's a reason that transmission hasn't been made on over 30 years. It's very old technology. the 2 OD gears you get with the T56 are probably worth the little extra cash you'll pay for the T56. And it will certainly be a lot less hassle to install.

But, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

charchri4

Wow so much here to talk about but first welcome to the forum! Hate to answer a question with a question but I'm afraid that is all that comes to mind so here goes.

I don't know much about the L33 engine but didn't a manual trans come from the factory behind them in something? Is that not an option for you?

How handy are you? IMO the best place to save money in the trans department is not to use the V8R trans mount if you can. As I recall it's about 450 bucks and can be made for about 25.

But even if you don't want to fab I agree with Bob the T10 is probably not the bargain it appears to be. If for no other reason the T56 takes your cruising RPM form 2500 to 1500 and would probably be 3 or 4 mpg difference. Even at todays low gas prices it doesn't take long for that to add up to big money. That and just 4 gears leaves a lot of performance on the table. I didn't notice in the article anything about the speed sensor on the trans. Any idea how he is getting that to the computer?

Still brimming with questions here. What's your budget, what do you plan to do with the car when it's done, how experienced are you at this sort of thing, what condition is the car in... Don't suppose you could do an intro and (or) a build thread to let is in on the project...

SupaDupaSteve

l33 was the 5.3 aluminium block in the 2005-2007 4wd ext cab pickups.

so essentially, no I don't believe it did, and if it did it would be 4wd with a TC on it.

I'm fairly capable when it comes to building cars. I've never tackled something this big before but I don't think it will be too bad. I built a 94 protege with the stock 1.8 to about 300whp. Some custom fab work but not too much.


I also just bought a 2000 sierra pickup and swapped in a fresh 5.3 and a 4l80e rather than the stock 4l60e.

But yes the T10 was a late night thought before I really had time to think it through lol. Doesn't really seem like a viable option at this point. and I haven't set a dollar amount, but the less I spend on parts the sooner the car will be driving. I'll make a build thread next weekend when I go to pickup the car. It's currently a 1.8 with a Jacksonracing SC. The car is overall in ok shape, needs some tlc nothing huge.

Gator Bait

....Unless you rarely shift your T56 to 5th much less 6th. ...but I'm an odd duck with a 1 gear mindset (4th)...untill that GT3 shows up again, then I'll use 3rd and 4th.

I think the speed signal for the ecu is the biggest issue to overcome. Otherwise I like the idea of an old school 4 on the floor.

SupaDupaSteve

speedscenewiring.com makes in inline speed sensor for the cable that outputs a signal specific for an LS

Sunshine Guy

Would the Tremec TKO 600 be worth considering? New, it is about $600/20% less than a T-56 Magnum, and I would assume the differential applies in the used market as well. The TCET 5009 model for GM engines has nice ratios, i.e., first gear is not too crazy low for the light car/big torque combo. 2.87 low and .64 overdrive. There's another part number with the same ratios but a .82 overdrive, if you prefer it.

You can use an OEM Muncie bellhousing with this box rather than buying an expensive aftermarket unit. It has both mechanical and electrical speed output, and it's a very strong box, too.

charchri4

^^ Great idea!

.boB

The TKO is an excellent aftermarket transmission; I have one in my street/race car. It can handle a lot of abuse in a light weight car. I'v been pushing well over 500hp through mine for years of track abuse without a hitch. Probably the only thing on my car that seems to be bullet-proof.

With a 1:1 4th and 0.64:1 5th, there's about a 1,000 rpm drop between 4th and 5th. That's a lot. Sometimes on the back roads I can't find the "perfect" gear. A minor annoyance, but not real tragedy.

They are bigger and heavier than a T5 (similar to the T56), and uses a similar bellhousing as the T5. AFAIK, they never put a T5 type trans behind an LS engine. You can buy the proper bellhousing from Quick Time, but it's not cheap. And you still have to work out the hydraulics.

Because of the special bellhousing and hydraulic bearing, you might not save much money.

I considered using a race built T5 for my car. Same ratios 1-5, but 50# lighter and smaller. But costs were pretty high, so I'm saving that for a year or two down the road.

Sunshine Guy

I certainly agree. The .64 overdrive is dandy for fuel economy, but the 36% drop in rpm from fourth to fifth applies a significant performance penalty. Tremec has the solution in part number TCET4618, which is an identical Chevy TKO box except it has a .82 fifth gear in place of the .64 ratio.

Actually the TKO is closer to the T-5's weight than that of the T-56, roughly splitting the difference.

Tremec says you can use an OEM Muncie bellhousing, which I would think could be found used pretty reasonably. Most of these conversion cars use hydraulic clutch activation of one type or another, so I wouldn't anticipate a big difference in cost depending on transmission selection.

I have the greatest respect for what the aftermarket has developed for the T5. They have taken a really small transmission that was originally designed for 4 and 6 cylinder vehicles and created parts that take torque abuse beyond all reason for their size. American hot rodding at its finest.

However, go to a transmission builder and look at the guts of a T-5 next to those from a TKO. Fancy metallurgy, heat treatments and design tricks aside, if you eyeball the meat in a TKO, you will want that in your car. The TKO only weighs 24 lb. more than a T-5, and most of that is in big, wide gears and fat, sturdy shafts. Although it's slightly larger, I haven't seen a car where the T-5 would fit that the TKO wouldn't.

I know the specs they publish on the "super-built" T-5's are appealing, but if you go see apples to apples with your own eyes, I bet your common sense will make it an easy choice. There's not much difference in price, either.

The only penalties with the TKO versus the T-5, in my opinion, are the 24 lb. weight increase (carried low and center where you'll never feel it), a small amount of extra horsepower absorbed turning those big, beefy gears, and a slight reluctance of the TKO to shift really quickly much above 6000 rpm. (If you are quick-shifting higher than that, there are synchro upgrades available).

.boB

The TKO is a great transmission for all around use, and pretty tough to be for dollar. I'v been beating the stuffings out of mine for years without a single complaint. All I do is change the fluid twice a year. It's never been out of the car. Like I said, it seems to be the only bullet proof component on the car. I'v managed to break just about everything else.

I was considering the race prepped T5 for a light weight (1800#) track only car, instead of the T56. 50# is a lot of weight, and a track car doesn't really need 2 OD gears.

If it was easy and cheap enough, I'd take the TKO out of the current track car (soon to be road only) and put it behind the LS in the new track car. Then put the LS T56 behind the SBF in the road car.